Answers to Anti's

The Catholic website, Catholic Answers, has a section devoted to (quite opinionated) information about non-Catholic groups. In this section, under the heading "non-Christian," is a series of articles devoted to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. While it appears that the unnamed author(s) of these articles on Mormonism have done a tad more research than most, the information is still, at best, incomplete. As Joseph Smith stated, "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may (AofF 1:11)." Therefore, we would like to overlook the condescending attitude of the author(s) and direct our attention to the specific LDS beliefs and doctrines that are discussed there.

You may wish to read the original article first.

Introduction

"The idea behind baptism for the dead," our author(s) tells us, "is this: God wants each of us to be with him in glory. To effect this, he allows us to accept the Mormon gospel here on earth. If we do not, he sends us to a "spirit prison" until the Mormon gospel has been preached to us there and we convert." First of all, let's not distance ourselves from the real issue: God wants us to live His gospel. Calling it the "Mormon gospel" is a misnomer because "Mormon" is only a nickname for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Contrary to popular usage, "saint" was the term used to refer to all members of Christ's Church in New Testament times (See related scriptures here), and it is used in the same sense by the "Mormon" Church, today. The gathering of people who have chosen to obey God's word has gone under different names throughout time - Jews, Christians - and also no "church name" at all (what were the Jews called before they called themselves Jews?), so it is not the Mormon Gospel that people must obey, it is God's Gospel.

As mentioned in my response to the author(s) article, "Mormon Stumpers," those who do hear it, and have its message ratified by the Holy Ghost, are under obligation to God to live by those principles that they know are true. If they accept what is true, they go to a place that will be to them a paradise. Mormons refer to this as "spirit paradise." If they reject what is true, they go to a place that is referred to as "spirit prison," which falls partially into that category known as "Hell." Though not with actual barbecued flesh, as is popularly understood, Mormons believe such burning to be a metaphorical description of what one will go through as one awaits God's judgment, fully aware of one's disobedience. This is only a temporary position, however, as Mormons believe that, since God loves all of His children unconditionally, all people will receive some varying degree of glory after judgment (See D&C 76:81-113), according to their deeds in life. But, not everyone is fortunate enough to hear the Gospel in its fulness while in mortality. Those who, for whatever reason, fall into that category, are given the opportunity to hear it in the spirit world, so that all mankind can be judged equally and by the same standard. "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit (1 Peter 4:6)." This passage, of course, refers to Jesus' visit to the spirit world after His death and prior to His resurrection, when He taught the Gospel to those people who had lived before Him and had been disobedient (1 Peter 3:18-20). Mormons believe that, just as God has always sent people to represent Him on Earth (prophets, etc.), so He also sends representatives to preach to the spirits who have lived and died without God, from the time of Christ's ascension until His return (See D&C 138:57).

"Mormons believe that... missionaries in the "spirit world"... are busy spreading the... gospel to dead people who have not yet received it. Should any of these dead people want to convert to Mormonism, they are required to abide by all its rules, one of which is water baptism. Hence the need for proxies to receive the corporeal waters of baptism." Again, we are not converting to "Mormonism." I highly doubt that the word is even used there. And, of course, anyone who is dead would not be required to "abide by all its rules," since many of the "rules" that we live by on Earth will be irrelevent by then (our code of health that the author(s) have shown disdain for in their other articles, known as the Word of Wisdom, comes to mind). They will, however, have to acknowledge that there are certain ordinances that are required for salvation (1 Cor. 11:2; D&C 138:58). These they will be unable to do for themselves, since they should have been performed during mortality, and they will have to wait until someone on Earth is able to do their work for them. Mormons believe that the necessity of this work is one of the main reasons that Christ will reign on Earth for 1,000 years following His return (Rev. 20:4).

John 5:25-29 tells us:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Notice that Jesus says, "the dead shall hear... and they that hear shall live." When the Lord talks about people "hearing" Him, it means not just that His words went into their ears, but that they accepted them (See Luke 6:46-49; Luke 16:29-31; John 8:47). This verse, then, tells us that the dead will have a choice.

It is interesting to point out that the Catholic Church holds some similar beliefs on the subject of a prison and paradise in the spirit world:

[I]n Christ's words to the penitent thief on Calvary the name paradise is used (Luke 23:43). St. Paul teaches (Ephesians 4:9) that before ascending into Heaven Christ "also descended first into the lower parts of the earth," and St. Peter still more explicitly teaches that "being put to death indeed, in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit," Christ went and "preached to those souls that were in prison, which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noah" (1 Peter 3:18-20). [Catholic Encyclopedia entry, Limbo]

Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions...

Further than this the definitions of the Church do not go, but the tradition of the Fathers and the Schoolmen must be consulted... [Catholic Encyclopedia entry, Purgatory]

Incidentally, the Catholic Encyclopedia entry on Purgatory also contains the following statement:

Modern Protestants, while they avoid the name purgatory, frequently teach the doctrine of "the middle state," and Martensen ("Christian Dogmatics," Edinburgh, 1890, p. 457) writes: "As no soul leaves this present existence in a fully complete and prepared state, we must suppose that there is an intermediate state, a realm of progressive development, (?) in which souls are prepared for the final judgment" (Farrar, "Mercy and Judgment," London, 1881, cap. iii).

Baptism for the Dead v. Baptism of Desire

Here, the author(s) argue that a "baptism of desire" can replace a physical baptism. They also point out what they believe are "problems" with the Mormon reasoning for baptism for the dead. Let's examine some of these "problems."

"Scripture is very clear," the author(s) tell us, "in stating that this life is the only chance we get. Once we die, our fate is sealed: "It is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27). There are no "second chances" after death." What I find interesting here, then, is the fact that, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Catholics believe that Jesus went and preached to people who had already died, thus giving them a "second chance," and that the living can offer prayers and "the acceptable sacrifice of the altar" as a means to aid those in purgatory, suggesting a sort of "second chance" doctrine, as well (See the Catholic Encyclopedia entry for Purgatory, Section V. Succouring the Dead). If the "fate [was] sealed" upon death, for either party mentioned, then how can these sorts of "second chances" be offered? Answer: Judgment does come after death, just as the scriptures tell us. But not immediately. There is a partial judgment at death, which determines whether you go to spirit paradise or prison, and Final Judgment comes later. I don't pretend to teach Catholic doctrine here, only to show that if this reasoning is a problem in Mormonism, then it is also a problem with Catholicism.

"Since [God] is a just judge, he does not hold people accountable for what they did not and could not have known." If this disproves any claims of Mormonism, then it certainly disproves the Catholic doctrine of infant baptism.

'[T]hose who do not hear the gospel in this life will be judged based on the knowledge they did have in this life." Then, why did Christ go and preach to the spirits in prison? Couldn't He have judged them based on what they already knew?

"God gives his light to all people (John 1:9), and the universe itself gives evidence of God (Ps. 19:1-4), evidence which is sufficient to establish basic moral accountability (Rom. 1:18-21)." True. But "basic moral accountability" is not sufficient for salvation, else why would there have been a Christ? And, if Christ's efforts were sufficient for the salvation of mankind regardless of their own actions, then why does the Catholic Church claim that membership in it's ranks is a necessity?

"For those who are ignorant by no fault of their own, God will not hold their ignorance against them; but it is wrong to assume that people have no light from God unless they hear an oral proclamation of the gospel." The flaws in the latter half of this statement have been shown in my remarks above. The first half, however, that "God will not hold their ignorance against them," is a ridiculous statement in light of scripture:

1. God is not a respecter of persons (Romans 2:11). Not that He disrespects us, but He does not show preference for one person over another. And it would definitely be a display of preference to hold one person accountable for their obedience or disobedience to Christ's Gospel, and not another.


2. Mercy cannot rob justice (Jacob 6:10). This scripture comes from the Book of Mormon, but the principle is Biblical: If justice were not required, and all could be made good solely by the mercy of God, Jesus would not have been sacrificed for our sins. God's sacrifice of His Son was in payment for our sins (an act of justice). In return, and in order for the atonement of Christ to apply to us, we are required to live the principles and ordinances of His Gospel. And if not, if nothing more were required but the acts of Jesus, then we have no need for the scriptures or the church. And both Mormons and Catholics can agree that that's not the case.

The author(s) next present us with the concept of "baptism of desire:" defined as a replacement for water baptism, for "those who have not yet heard the gospel or learned of God, but who nevertheless seek to follow the truth as they understand it, they have an implicit desire for God since they desire to follow the truth... They are already united to God, even if they are not fully aware of it in this life" Mormons would disagree with the interpretation of the scriptures upon which this belief is based (See the Catholic Encyclopedia entry for Baptism, Section X. Substitutes for the Sacrament), though we would hold that it is perfectly acceptable for Catholics to believe it, should they choose to, although it appears to contradict the declarations of many Catholic Bishops, Popes, and Saints that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church (View a collection of quotations gathered mostly from Catholic websites).

We next hear that "God can simply let whomever he wants into heaven, whether they have water baptism or not. God is not bound by the sacraments he himself instituted." If we can't believe that God is bound by His own laws, then how can we trust Him?

The Bible Doesn't Teach It

As the name implies, this section mainly has the author(s) declaring that Catholics and Protestants alike have no idea what 1 Cor. 15:29 could possibly be referring to, but whatever it is, they are certain that it could not possibly be what those silly Mormons think. This is an interesting position to stand so boldly behind: We don't have a leg to stand on, so that proves that you can't be right! It is true, the Bible doesn't TEACH baptism for the dead - it just mentions it. And if that were the only basis for our belief, it would definitely be "theologically tenuous," as theologian Robert Mouw labeled it on the PBS special, The Mormons, recently. But that's not why we do it. We do it because we believe in modern revelation, and we believe that it was dictated to the Prophet Joseph Smith (See D&C 127:5).

Could there be any reason that such things were not mentioned in the Bible? Speaking of an early Christian practice, Hugh Nibley tells us:

Its absence from the New Testament, which was Augustine's argument for rejecting it as spurious, was explained by the sectaries by quoting Tobit 12:7: "The ordinances of the King it is well to conceal, though it is praiseworthy to reveal the works of God." (The Early Christian Prayer Circle, by Hugh W. Nibley)

Coincidentally, the Bible does not "teach" anything about popes, the administration of the Holy Eucharist as practiced today, monasteries, convents, praying to "saints," etc, etc.

Further Reading:

• Baptism for the Dead in Ancient Times, By Hugh W. Nibley [Must read!]
  Dr. Nibley was a noted professor of ancient scriptures. From the text: "The purpose of the present paper is to pass in review those passages from early Christian sources which can shed some light on beliefs and practices connected with baptism for the dead in ancient times. We shall see how the early Saints answered the question "What is to become of the righteous dead who have never been baptized?" a question that sorely perplexed the doctors of the medieval church who, lacking the knowledge of earlier times, were forced to choose between a weak law that allowed the unbaptized to enter heaven, and a cruel God who damned the innocent."

A Flat-Out Contradiction

In their final assault, the author(s) tell us that, "the Book of Mormon... contradicts much Mormon theology, and baptism for the dead is no exception." To support this, they offer Alma 34:35-36, which says:

For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.

And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb.

The author(s) interpretation is: "In other words, those who die as non-Mormons go to hell, period. There's no suggestion of a later, vicarious admission into the Mormon church." This is not a correct interpretation, obviously, as the prophet Amulek (who is speaking here) clearly states that the ones that "have become subjected to the spirit of the devil" are those that have "procrastinated the day of [their] repentance." You can't procrastinate your repentance unless you are aware that you need to repent in the first place!

"We also see present-day Mormon doctrine contradicted in 2 Nephi 9:15," the author(s) tell us. It is actually 2 Nephi 9:15-16 that is quoted:

And it shall come to pass that when all men shall have passed from this first death unto life, insomuch as they have become immortal, they must appear before the judgment-seat of the Holy One of Israel; and then cometh the judgment, and then must they be judged according to the holy judgment of God.

And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end.

Interestingly, the author(s) don't tell us how or why this scripture contradicts "present-day Mormon doctrine." I'll elucidate anyway: As mentioned earlier, all who die will go to either prison or paradise in the spirit world, where they await the resurrection. Verse 15 points out that everyone will face the Final Judgment after they have been resurrected (i.e., "they have become immortal," see 1 Cor. 15:53). At that point, as verse 16 points out, they will remain in whatever state of glory (or lack thereof) that they have chosen or earned. As 1 Cor. 15:41-42 tells us: "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead."

Classic parting shot: "It is unforunate that Smith abandoned his own, earlier doctrine. It would not have made the Mormon scriptures any more authentic, but it would have prevented millions of futile Mormon proxy baptisms from being performed." It is interesting, then, that the "erroneous" things that Joseph Smith did teach seem to be showing themselves time and time again in historical documents, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, Nag Hammadi texts, and many others. If it was all just a fabrication, it is interesting, then, that others throughout history have "fabricated" the exact same practices. As a missionary for the LDS Church, I was fortunate to serve members of the Zuni, Tewa, Navajo, Apache, and Hopi Indian tribes. I learned that the Hopis once performed baptisms for their dead, but that once the keeper of that tradition became LDS, he did not pass it on to anyone else. Note that this was not a practice that the Hopis had learned from the Mormons, but a traditional practice that had been passed down for generations! The practice was changed, of course, with men immersing themselves in water, while holding "prayer feathers" with the names of the deceased tied to them, but the point is: Joseph Smith did not invent baptism for the dead! And if you believe that the American Indians are descendants of the Book of Mormon people, as Mormons do, then this Hopi practice comes as no surprise, for they had the same Gospel then that we have now!